@benex
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OBS: Use this post. http://www.vespa-ciao.nl/forums.php?m=posts&q=36391
Hello, i was also looking for 90mm discs for my bravo, but the link you posted doesn’t work now. I did find only one side (https://www.jmpbparts.com/vespa-ciao-si/engine-parts/variomatic/schijf-90mm-vespa-voorzijde-achterkoppeling.html), but i can’t find the other side anywhere. There are two discs on treatland. Can anyonbe tell where to find both 90mm discs?
Hey Intellect80, thanks for this advice 😉 I was looking for some deruster, but didn’t find anything as good as Rostio. I will try it 😉
By writing “they close quickly” you mean that the filter clogged and gives no fuel? That is weird, because i use this filter in Piaggio Bravo for about 2-3 years now and there were never any problems with lean mixture or engine damage. Of course i change this filter once in a while. Maybe the filter you write about is different?
The name of the vario is wrong, the one you have is a Polini Utah and not the Hi-speed or Speedcontrol. But this seems not to be the problem. Did you check if the belt is running freely? It might be it is scratching on some obstacle’s on your subframe or the motorscreen.
I didn’t notice any scratching. It seems like it’s running freely. But i have an idea what may be the cause; there is a copper bushing (that is used in Polini vario) in stock vario (picture below) and it may cause the belt to tear.
The belt looks like it wears mainly from one side, the same side as the copper bushing.
But the belt may touch this bushing only at idle or low speeds. At higher speeds it goes higher on variator half pulleys so i don’t know if my theory is right. I saw that someone grinded a bit of this bushing and it is not visible.
It is possible that the belt wears, because it is too short for this vario and clutch 100m?
If you got one of those Kevlar reinforced belts that might be the cause.
Ok, i don’t know how exactly how to recognize kevlar belt, but that may be the case. With this vario i mainly used some belt for industry use and not for mopeds, my bad. So what kind of belts (what brands) are you using? Are RMS belts ok? I have heard that Bando belts are very nice. What about Malossi?
I run a Power1 vario housing from a Peugeot Fox, which has an aluminum body but with an outer coating that is really durable. At least 15,000km I’ve driven with it and only started to wear down on some places.
I am really satisfied with the Polini vario performane so i want to keep it. And it is also easier to buy.
Regarding the belt lengths, 13×950(90mm) and 13×975(100mm) or 13×983(103mm) belt lengths are for Ciao. 1050 seems like a more appropriate length belt for Bravo, Citta etc. So i guess Shark made a typo.
Ok, so the belt lenghts from the link are wrong. I always used 13×1050 with Bravo stock vario and it was always ok. And RMS makes Bravo vario belts 13×1050 so it must be right.
Wrong call? https://vespa-ciao.nl/how-tos/transfer-how-tos/maten-v-snaren-ciao-citta-bravo-si/ – Bravo with stock vario: 13×1050
– Bravo with 90mm vario clutch: 13×950
– Bravo with 100mm vario clutch: 13×975I didn’t try other belts, but I guess that 13×975 would be way too short. It is 7.5 cm shorter than 1050 and it is a lot. I doubt it will fit this setup. What is more, from my observation polini vario isn’t so much different from a standard vario. So why would it need other belt?
In all of setups below there is a stock vario and a standard rear coupling/bell clutch/vario clutch which is 100mm (as i understand it). So how can it be that there are two different belt lengths for the same setup? Only the setup with 90mm clutch is different and requires different belt length.
– Bravo with stock vario: 13×1050
– Bravo with 100mm vario clutch: 13×975what brand belt are you using?
Im riding flawlessly for a long time now with a Gates belt
I was using Malossi belt and next RMS belt. Both for use with Si and Grillo, 13mm wide.
It seems that the yellow wire that powers up all electronics is connected to all 3 coils. It is more clearly on this picture. Red circles show the connections between yellow wire and all 3 coils.
do I put it before or after the regulator? Or even instead factory made regulator, because it regulates voltage
That regulator is only there to not overfeed the bridge rectifier. Above model can take in the huge difference in idle voltage vs full throttle voltage that the Piaggio coils give out. Especially if you’re not running a stock configuration. If you’d dim it down with that 12v AC regulator you’ll only take away possible power for the larger bridge rectifier. So to answer your question: I’d place it in the place of the regulator and remove the horn rectifier. Once you have 60W of 12V power, you can power everything.
Ok, i ordered that converter. Unfortunately it is from China. It seems that there are no such converters apart from China. At least i couldn’t find one. If there is no factory made regulator, the yellow wire from stator goes to one of the cables that go into the converter. So the other cable must be connected to the earth?
benex wrote: There are two (~) wires coming in, so one should be connected to the green wire coming out of regulator and the other to the black one? I don’t see any other option, but I want to be sure
You need to feed those with AC power, so looking at your electrical drawing you’ll create a circuit if you hook up green and black. I’m not sure which exact model engine you’re using and how many coils (2,3 or 4 coils) but you could feed it with the output of two coils to get to that 60W of power. I don’t think a single coil could create such output, as its more like 25W per coil.
In my mopeds there are 4 coil stators (as in the picture below), but in each of them there is only one yellow wire coming out (apart from three wires that feed the CDI) that can be used as power suply for the whole electricity. I don’t know if the yellow wire is connected to more than one coils (can’t check right now, because the stator is mounted on the moped). Do i have to connect another wire to one of the coils to get more power out of stator?
Or maybe it would be better to get a stator with 3 wires coming out to power up lights and turn signals? It seems that each of those three wires is connected to a different coil.
niek1992 wrote: The horn rectifier most likely has limited wattage. So while it can power the horn just fine, if you’re going to hook up a headlight, taillight + brakelight and two blinkers on the same rectifier, you’ll most likely gonna end up killing that rectifier.
Yes, I think you are right about that.
(imo) you want something like this:
Accepts a variable AC input and converts it into DC12v with 5A max amperage (based on input voltage). I’m thinking of ordering this just to test/verify the idea i’m having of adding a battery for LED’s or just normal bulbs, charging circuit and a rPi Zero with GPRS+4G hat. Several years ago I’ve bought a much smaller bridge rectifier that was capable of only 1.5a and tested it on my Ciao. During the runs I’ve done with it, it always gave 12V. I strapped a multimeter to my headlight and tried idle, 25km/h and 50km/h. Not sure how the bridge rectifier was holding up though, because i fed it at 20 to 22v.Aa, yesterday i have found just the same converter (the same parameters) 😉 It might do the work just fine. Im curious about two things though:
- do I put it before or after the regulator? Or even instead factory made regulator, because it regulates voltage
- there are two (~) wires coming in, so one should be connected to the green wire coming out of regulator and the other to the black one? I don’t see any other option, but I want to be sure 😉
I have also found a plug-in sets for LED lights in Piaggio mopeds: https://mopedrevolution.wixsite.com/electronic/shop
Unfortunately the regulator-converter that comes with the set (or you can buy it separately) gives only 10W output. But it is plugin and it should work just fine.
You need this: https://www.jmpbonderdelen.nl/spanningsregelaar-universeel-6-volt-30-watt.html
This is standard 6V regulator which also doesn’t convert AC to DC. In my Bravo there is 12V instalation and there is already a factory made regulator.
Are you certain that the Sipea regulator converts AC to DC? I thought that it only regulates the AC current on a certain level of about 12V.That i’m not sure of. I saw a aluminium heatsink, 4 pins and instantly thought it was a rectifier.
Sipea regulator has only 3 pins. I guess it doesn’t rectify AC into DC, only regulates around 12V. Only horn current must be DC, so it is converted in a horn rectifier (number 3). But i guess i can connect front led from that rectifier. There may be enough power from capacitors to power it up. Of course the best way to get DC would be a battery with charging.
The capacitor is there to prevent voltage spikes. Usually you also place a resistor to prevent voltage from leaking back. I’m no expert myself, although i attended a school for two years where i was trained to become a electrician so please take my advice with some salt (and do your own research). I did some research just now, and it contradicts what i’ve said in an earlier post. I’d say get comfortable with a multimeter, measure the voltage coming out from the spools without the Sipea regulator and buy a bridge rectifier that accepts that range of voltage. Bridge rectifier turns it into 12v which you can then feed into your consumers (headlight, blinkers etc.). Regarding the capacitors and how to use them i’d need to investigate a bit more. I was under the assumption that a capacitor is like a reservoir of a toilet where it stores energy untill it’s flushed. It functions as a buffer.
There are capacitors in the horn rectifier and they do work as a power storage to use when needed. 12V horn consumes a lot of power so there have to be capacitors, because engine would not generate enough power to make it work.
Hi @benex, Was doing something else and found a disassembled Ciao head. See picture below:
Thanks for the picture. I didn’t see such recess in one of my cylinders. I must check other that leak oil. I can always use a dremel and make it on my own 😉
A bridge rectifier converts AC into DC. You’re already using DC because of your 12V 40W Sipea regulator. So while you can feed DC into a bridge rectifier and polarity isn’t reversed, what does happen is that voltage is reduced because it is ran through two diodes. In easier speaking terms, the voltage of your Sipea regulator is stepped down to about 9,8V (which is causing the flickering). This can also be measured with a multimeter.
Are you certain that the Sipea regulator converts AC to DC? I thought that it only regulates the AC current on a certain level of about 12V. If it does, why use a horn rectifier in the electrical installation? Horn rectifier converts AC to DC, but also contains capacitors to power the horn (maybe this is the main reason to use it in the installation?). I’m not very good at electronics 😉 I must befriend myself with a multimeter.
Ideally you want to create a ‘buffer’ before a consumer (e.g. light). You can do this with a capacitor with the right voltage (8-24v works fine). Bigger capacitor can store more power, so your output voltage is smoothened better. Although you don’t need to place a 2000uF capacitor.
Ok, so do I need only capacitor before the LED buld or maybe also a resistor? i have found a simple scheme with capacitor and resistor before the LED bulb on the Internet. Would it be alright?
And in the process of servicing that engine you removed or even replaced the exhaust. The exhaust might be crudded shut or had similar exhaust paste like Bosal to seal in the gaps. The Exhaust Cement is one time use only and needs to be reapplied after you’ve done work any work on the moped which involves removing the exhaust. Regarding the flange, you could clean it with a wire brush. And if it’s clean already, use a rubber mallet to hit the exhaust firmly onto the flange as far as possible. The exhaust itself is one of the better models in my opinion. It uses thicker steel than a cheap alternative and also a removable clamp.
Okok, the exhaust manifold can be a little out of its original shape ;PIf it has the original Piaggio logo on it, then it’s original. If it has no stampings on it whatsoever it’s a remake and will most likely suffer from the same flaws a Malossi head has. I’m not 100% sure if a Si or Bravo has the same head design structurally (not as a Ciao head, but all my Ciao’s had a rubber O-ring beneath that red circled part. The head has a little recess for this where the rubber O-ring fits in snuggly. If you place a rubber O-ring beneath that part without modifying the head, you’ll simply squish the O-ring which isn’t going to work . If not, reply and i’ll grab a disassembled Ciao head and picture what i’m trying to describe .
Your explanation is alright and i do understand it 😉 I remember that this cylinder head has a Piaggio logo on it. And i am pretty sure that i didn’t see any O-ring or any recess for this O-ring on any of my cylinder heads. I guess I must make such a recess for the O-ring.I will try all of your advices and see how it goes. If the problem will still be there, I will write here. thanks guys 😉
