Start clutch slips

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Hi all
Would like to ask you for help with my variomatic Ciao.
Finished my new engine and have problem with starts by pedals. I have problem with slipping starter shoes.
Engine is Malossi MP One with castiron 46,5mm Malossi cillinder, Multivar variator, Bosch 13mm belt, original rear clutch with yellow Malossi spring, C45 bell and new start shoes Malossi. Rear hub gear 1:10,7.
Engine spins nice for every kick when decompressor is open. But when decomperssor is closed, engine stops and hardly makes a spin. Start shoes slips and are not able to spin engine under compression.

Checked this toppic here in the forum and tested.
Belt is OK, does not slips over pulleys and all parts in cluthces are degreased.
Also dismounted springs in start shoes did not help.
Do you have any advice for setup or how to improve friction in start clutch?

Thank you

[WimBijdragerBerichten: 3364]

dino29 wrote:
Hi all Would like to ask you for help with my variomatic Ciao. Finished my new engine and have problem with starts by pedals. I have problem with slipping starter shoes. Engine is Malossi MP One with castiron 46,5mm Malossi cillinder, Multivar variator, Bosch 13mm belt, original rear clutch with yellow Malossi spring, C45 bell and new start shoes Malossi. Rear hub gear 1:10,7. Engine spins nice for every kick when decompressor is open. But when decomperssor is closed, engine stops and hardly makes a spin. Start shoes slips and are not able to spin engine under compression. Checked this toppic here in the forum and tested. Belt is OK, does not slips over pulleys and all parts in cluthces are degreased. Also dismounted springs in start shoes did not help. Do you have any advice for setup or how to improve friction in start clutch? Thank you

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The startshoes are mounted in the right direction?
With the opening site in direction of rotation.

Gr. Wim.

Een oude brommer is alleen leuk als sleutelen uw hobby is.

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Yes, I think start shoes are in correct direction. Same direction like in service guide.

[WimBijdragerBerichten: 3364]

The clutch in your picture turns clockwise?
Then they are wrong.

Gr. Wim.

Een oude brommer is alleen leuk als sleutelen uw hobby is.

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Yes, clutch turns clockwise.
OK, will test it with start shoes in oposit direction.
Thank you Wim

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Hello Wim

Tested oposit ditection of start shoes and it is wrong. It works worse, there is absolutely no attempt of friction when turning the clutch.
Start shoes can move easily in clutch bell.

Do not know what can be wrong.

[WimBijdragerBerichten: 3364]

Oke.
Compression to high?
You have the right cilinderhead?
Not flattened?

https://www.jmpbonderdelen.nl/80cc-cilinderkit-ciao-malossi.html

is this your set?

And the ignitiontiming is oké, tested with a strobo.

I hope other people will answer too, but everyone is on a holiday I think. 😎
And it’s 30 C degrees here now instead of the 17 C degrees normaly.

Gr. Wim.

Een oude brommer is alleen leuk als sleutelen uw hobby is.

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Ahoj Wime
Ano, toto je můj set.
Motor běží, už jsem ho nastartoval pomocí vrtačky na matici variátoru.
Mám problém se startovací spojkou, protože komprese způsobuje vysoký odpor startovací spojky.
Mohu roztočit motor kopnutím pedálu, když je dekompresní ventil otevřený. Ale ne, když je dekompresní ventil zavřený, startovací boty prokluzují.
Děkuji Wimovi za pomoc při hledání příčiny.
Ano, doufám, že si můj příspěvek přečte i někdo další a možná je tu někdo další, kdo provozuje 80cc motor s vario a podělí se se mnou o nastavení.

[Herr FlickSleutelbeheerderBerichten: 6901]

Starting with vario and 80cc can be a pain in the arse. So you def. need more speed so it doesn’t slip.
Can you try without the little springs in the start clutch? There are 2 little springs – without these it has to grip on straight away.

46 Pinasco, Malossi RV, Schijfrem, Fox Vario
Gele Racefrikandel

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Hello Herr Flick
Thank you for reading my post. Yes, I tried it also without these small spring. It is little bit better but still not enough to spin engine continuously. Clutch still work very nice only when decompression valve is open.
I tryied also another new pair of start shoes (Ferodo this time), still the same.
Yes, I also think better performace and friction can be made by more speed of clutch bell or more weight of shoes or rougher surface on clutch body.

But what confuses me, there are several videos on Youtube where guys with BIG DEPS and original vario clutch simply starts their Ciao by one slow push on pedal or pushing Ciao forward for only about 2-3m. And when tehy show their clutch and setup I can´t see anything diffirent from mine. So it should work also with my setup.
Really strange for me.

[WimBijdragerBerichten: 3364]

dino29 wrote:

But what confuses me, there are several videos on Youtube where guys with BIG DEPS and original vario clutch simply starts their Ciao by one slow push on pedal or pushing Ciao forward for only about 2-3m. And when tehy show their clutch and setup I can´t see anything diffirent from mine. So it should work also with my setup. Really strange for me.

---

On youtube I see almost only pullstart bigdeps, maybe an idee.

Gr. Wim.

Een oude brommer is alleen leuk als sleutelen uw hobby is.

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Yes Wim, pullstart can be solution 😀
But I need to keep functional bycicle mode. I think pullstart gets in the way of crankarms.

[MartinoModeratorBerichten: 7384]

First of, your startershoes are mounted the proper way, but are you sure the slipping is with your shoes on the clutch? I think you should have a closer look at you Malossi Multivar, Bosch belt combination. From the old type Multivar it’s known the bus is a bit long so in combination with the belt it has not enough friction when the compression kicks in. I don’t know the Bosch belt and it’s angle. Do you have a different kind of belt to test and don’t forget the Malossi Multivar and it’s buslenght.

Link naar Mijn collectie / Projecten.

[dino29Topic starterBerichten: 14]

Hello
I made test with different start shoes over the weekend.
It is all about rubber compound. New shoes with softer rubber are slipping on clutch in my case, although they should provide better grip and eliminate slipping. I had best results with pair of old original start shoes with very hard rubber compound. I have almost non slipping on clutch with these old start shoes.

But when I solved this issue, I had new one.
As meny of you asked me, my belt is now slipping on multivar.
So now I am testing belts.
Actualy I have only my Bosch belt which does not heve suitabe dimensions. Do not know angle, I can mesure only dimensions (althought outer width 13mm, inner width is only 7,3mm and thickness 8,8mm)
I would like to use original Malossi belt but they produce only lenght 978mm which seems to be too long for Multivar with rear 90mm pulley.

Can somebody recomend to me which belt works correctly with multivar and 90mm rear pulley? Lenght should by about 955mm. This will help me a lot. Thank you.

[WimBijdragerBerichten: 3364]

JMPB has just one Ciao vario belt 950

Variateur en onderdelen Vespa Ciao (jmpbonderdelen.nl)
https://www.jmpbonderdelen.nl/vespa-ciao-si/motordelen/variodelen-vespa-ciao.html

Gr. Wim.

Een oude brommer is alleen leuk als sleutelen uw hobby is.

[Gebruiker]

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