Different rear variator clutches?

[sx3-sweTopic starterBerichten: 290]

Hello,

Today I took my rear variator clutch apart for changing the spring to yellow ones, both the pressure spring, but also the clutch spring. What I did notice was that the stock clutch springs are pretty much longer than the malossi ones. I figured they won’t fit. After some googling, it seems like I have some “US version” clutch?

So, the basic question is, how much do they differ? as I can’t find malossi US springs, I thought I rebuild the clutch to euro clutch.. Is it possible to just but new euro-style clutch shoes and everything will work out great?

Like theese:
http://www.ebay.it/itm/0291-MASSETTE-FRIZIONE-A-3-PIAGGIO-CIAO-CON-VARIATORE-/130808509698?pt=Ricambi_e_Accessori_Moto&hash=item1e74cb7502

Are they euro-style, and will fit inside my rear clucth? 😀

My clutch pad assembly, (not the bell) have an diameter of ~90mm and looks like this.

[Piet30DonateurBerichten: 1082]

there are about 3 different vario clutches on the market.

Here is a pic with the clutches and the relevant springs

The Malossi springs only fit in the left clutch

[sx3-sweTopic starterBerichten: 290]

Well, thats my typical luck! 🙁
If I manage to find the left clutch, as shown in piet30’s photo, will the clutch bell from the centre clutch fit? Or must I buy even more parts? =)

Anyone, have one in spare? 😀

[FredzzzModeratorBerichten: 1484]

I believe the clutch bells are universal.

[niek1992BijdragerBerichten: 1882]

There are springs for your type of clutch Link to Article on JMPB.

I found out that the above springs fitted after i tried a few out in a scooter-shop. These are obviously from a scooter clutch. I never tried them with a running clutch, because i had a “dutch” clutch laying around.

Unfortunatly, the segment-housing(holder) isn’t compatible with other clutch segments. As you can see, the pins are wider than the others displayed. So or you’ll have to replace those pins, or get another clutch that does have the right clutch segments.

EDIT: maybe it’s possible, but then you’ll have to drill the holes for the pins yourself, and use a bolt to fabricate those pins. If they’re miss-alligned, you’ll get terrible vibrations..

[sx3-sweTopic starterBerichten: 290]

Yeah, it’s easier to see now, when all 3 different models are side by side.
Is any of the clutches the better choose?
Is my clutch / the middle in piet30’s photo an “oostenrijkse koppeling” ? The springs don’t really look like mine stock spring, mine have one long end.
If the omega springs will fit in my clutch, which one of them would be nearest match with the yellow malossi? Due to different clutch, maybe the engaging geometry/ratio is different aswell?

[MartinoModeratorBerichten: 7384]

Yes, this middle clutch is the same as yours and what is sometimes called “Oostenrijkse” koppeling. Actually all the clutches are given names and has some reference of where these clutches where bought, but actually all are not bond by the place of origin and the difference is in the age of these clutches. And indeed there are 3 series to be seen through the course of years. The old timer(1st serie) having a clutchbell with only two rings. The newer types have 3, but these bells are able to switch with each other. Last but not least there is an imitation clutch out there sometimes named as a JMPB clutch.

Do you have any photo of your springs?

I don’t know any comparrison betweeen Malosssi and Omega, but you can still buy Malossi springs if you like. You need them from a scooter Minarelli horizontal enginge. Keep in mind the colors of these scootersprings don’t follow the colors of the vespa springs.

Scootersprings;

White +7%
Yellow +12%

Where with the Vespa springs the white ones are more powerfull then the yellows.

Link naar Mijn collectie / Projecten.

[sx3-sweTopic starterBerichten: 290]

Thanks mate,

In my first post I attached 2 images, in one of the images 1 spring is shown. My clutch bell has 2 “rings”
The funny thing is that I e-mailed JMPB about the Omega and how long they are and they replied 26mm, I measured mine and the are 33mm from tip to tip. The omegas seem to be too short, or JMPB measured the wrong spring(?).
I think the dutch clutch springs are about 24-ish mm.
Anyway, let’s say a yellow scooter spring is +12%, that’s +12% from the original spring fitted in that certain clutch. Finding a scooter spring that’s about +12% stronger than the vespa original, seems like mission impossible. Maybe measuring the thickness of the wire that the spring is made of on the yellow vespa spring, and find a minarelli spring with same thickness will be sufficent.

But then we are back at the geometry of the clutch itself, and the centrifugal forces might not be the same when comparing the different vespa clutches, the dutch clutch seem to have bigger lever, because of the more centre fixation point compares to the german version. That’s why maybe a 1,5mm spring in a dutch clutch won’t work as good in a austrian/german clutch.

The headache grows bigger…. Maybe just easier to buy a new dutch-clutch 😀

[DarkMagician6BijdragerBerichten: 932]

Maybe you could try to drill some holes in the segments, that *should* have the same result as putting in tighter springs as there is less centrifugal force because of the lower weight. I have no idea how big of a difference that would be, but it might be a simple solution.

[sx3-sweTopic starterBerichten: 290]

Thanks guys!
I replied JMPB and asked if they really were 26mm, and they were. In my opinion thoose springs should match the Italian clutch, rather than the Austrian clutch. Maybe people have different definitions of the name of the different clutches.

Never mind, I solved my problem by investing myself out of the crisis.. I sold the kit that I have, and bought a new one from the Forum 🙂

Thanks again for the support!

[Gebruiker]

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