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Hello, i am planning to put LED bulbs into my Bravo; front and rear lights + blinkers. I ordered some LED bulbs from aliexpress. The moped is 12V, electronic ignition with 12V 40W Sipea regulator (electrical scheme below). The blinkers installation is home made by a previous owner.
1. Basic electrical installation:
I have read that it is good to put a bridge rectifier before a front light LED bulb for it to live longer. The LED bulbs are already in the blinkers and they seem to work just fine without a bridge rectifier. Recently i did a test with a bridge rectifier (KBPC 5001) before the front light LED bulb (12V, circa 4-5W), scheme below. On idle and low throttle it shines alright but when i open throttle more, the bulb is flickering. Some time ago i did the same test but without bridge rectifier and it did not flicker with opened throttle. What may be the reason of the flickering?
2. Bridge rectifier before fron light LED bulb:
Can anyone tell if the basic electrical installation is alright? Is the bridge rectifier ok for LED bulbs or there is a better way for the LED lights?
A bridge rectifier converts AC into DC. You’re already using DC because of your 12V 40W Sipea regulator. So while you can feed DC into a bridge rectifier and polarity isn’t reversed, what does happen is that voltage is reduced because it is ran through two diodes. In easier speaking terms, the voltage of your Sipea regulator is stepped down to about 9,8V (which is causing the flickering). This can also be measured with a multimeter.
Ideally you want to create a ‘buffer’ before a consumer (e.g. light). You can do this with a capacitor with the right voltage (8-24v works fine). Bigger capacitor can store more power, so your output voltage is smoothened better. Although you don’t need to place a 2000uF capacitor.
A bridge rectifier converts AC into DC. You’re already using DC because of your 12V 40W Sipea regulator. So while you can feed DC into a bridge rectifier and polarity isn’t reversed, what does happen is that voltage is reduced because it is ran through two diodes. In easier speaking terms, the voltage of your Sipea regulator is stepped down to about 9,8V (which is causing the flickering). This can also be measured with a multimeter.
Are you certain that the Sipea regulator converts AC to DC? I thought that it only regulates the AC current on a certain level of about 12V. If it does, why use a horn rectifier in the electrical installation? Horn rectifier converts AC to DC, but also contains capacitors to power the horn (maybe this is the main reason to use it in the installation?). I’m not very good at electronics 😉 I must befriend myself with a multimeter.
Ideally you want to create a ‘buffer’ before a consumer (e.g. light). You can do this with a capacitor with the right voltage (8-24v works fine). Bigger capacitor can store more power, so your output voltage is smoothened better. Although you don’t need to place a 2000uF capacitor.
Ok, so do I need only capacitor before the LED buld or maybe also a resistor? i have found a simple scheme with capacitor and resistor before the LED bulb on the Internet. Would it be alright?
Are you certain that the Sipea regulator converts AC to DC? I thought that it only regulates the AC current on a certain level of about 12V.
That i’m not sure of. I saw a aluminium heatsink, 4 pins and instantly thought it was a rectifier.
If it does, why use a horn rectifier in the electrical installation? Horn rectifier converts AC to DC, but also contains capacitors to power the horn (maybe this is the main reason to use it in the installation?). I’m not very good at electronics I must befriend myself with a multimeter.
The capacitor is there to prevent voltage spikes. Usually you also place a resistor to prevent voltage from leaking back. I’m no expert myself, although i attended a school for two years where i was trained to become a electrician so please take my advice with some salt (and do your own research). I did some research just now, and it contradicts what i’ve said in an earlier post.
I’d say get comfortable with a multimeter, measure the voltage coming out from the spools without the Sipea regulator and buy a bridge rectifier that accepts that range of voltage. Bridge rectifier turns it into 12v which you can then feed into your consumers (headlight, blinkers etc.). Regarding the capacitors and how to use them i’d need to investigate a bit more. I was under the assumption that a capacitor is like a reservoir of a toilet where it stores energy untill it’s flushed. It functions as a buffer.
Are you certain that the Sipea regulator converts AC to DC? I thought that it only regulates the AC current on a certain level of about 12V.That i’m not sure of. I saw a aluminium heatsink, 4 pins and instantly thought it was a rectifier.
Sipea regulator has only 3 pins. I guess it doesn’t rectify AC into DC, only regulates around 12V. Only horn current must be DC, so it is converted in a horn rectifier (number 3). But i guess i can connect front led from that rectifier. There may be enough power from capacitors to power it up. Of course the best way to get DC would be a battery with charging.
The capacitor is there to prevent voltage spikes. Usually you also place a resistor to prevent voltage from leaking back. I’m no expert myself, although i attended a school for two years where i was trained to become a electrician so please take my advice with some salt (and do your own research). I did some research just now, and it contradicts what i’ve said in an earlier post. I’d say get comfortable with a multimeter, measure the voltage coming out from the spools without the Sipea regulator and buy a bridge rectifier that accepts that range of voltage. Bridge rectifier turns it into 12v which you can then feed into your consumers (headlight, blinkers etc.). Regarding the capacitors and how to use them i’d need to investigate a bit more. I was under the assumption that a capacitor is like a reservoir of a toilet where it stores energy untill it’s flushed. It functions as a buffer.
There are capacitors in the horn rectifier and they do work as a power storage to use when needed. 12V horn consumes a lot of power so there have to be capacitors, because engine would not generate enough power to make it work.
You need this: https://www.jmpbonderdelen.nl/spanningsregelaar-universeel-6-volt-30-watt.html
This is standard 6V regulator which also doesn’t convert AC to DC. In my Bravo there is 12V instalation and there is already a factory made regulator.
The horn rectifier most likely has limited wattage. So while it can power the horn just fine, if you’re going to hook up a headlight, taillight + brakelight and two blinkers on the same rectifier, you’ll most likely gonna end up killing that rectifier.
(imo) you want something like this:
Accepts a variable AC input and converts it into DC12v with 5A max amperage (based on input voltage). I’m thinking of ordering this just to test/verify the idea i’m having of adding a battery for LED’s or just normal bulbs, charging circuit and a rPi Zero with GPRS+4G hat.
Several years ago i’ve bought a much smaller bridge rectifier that was capable of only 1.5a and tested it on my Ciao. During the runs i’ve done with it, it always gave 12V. I strapped a multimeter to my headlight and tried idle, 25km/h and 50km/h. Not sure how the bridge rectifier was holding up though, because i fed it at 20 to 22v.
niek1992 wrote: The horn rectifier most likely has limited wattage. So while it can power the horn just fine, if you’re going to hook up a headlight, taillight + brakelight and two blinkers on the same rectifier, you’ll most likely gonna end up killing that rectifier.
Yes, I think you are right about that.
(imo) you want something like this:
Accepts a variable AC input and converts it into DC12v with 5A max amperage (based on input voltage). I’m thinking of ordering this just to test/verify the idea i’m having of adding a battery for LED’s or just normal bulbs, charging circuit and a rPi Zero with GPRS+4G hat. Several years ago I’ve bought a much smaller bridge rectifier that was capable of only 1.5a and tested it on my Ciao. During the runs I’ve done with it, it always gave 12V. I strapped a multimeter to my headlight and tried idle, 25km/h and 50km/h. Not sure how the bridge rectifier was holding up though, because i fed it at 20 to 22v.Aa, yesterday i have found just the same converter (the same parameters) 😉 It might do the work just fine. Im curious about two things though:
- do I put it before or after the regulator? Or even instead factory made regulator, because it regulates voltage
- there are two (~) wires coming in, so one should be connected to the green wire coming out of regulator and the other to the black one? I don’t see any other option, but I want to be sure 😉
I have also found a plug-in sets for LED lights in Piaggio mopeds: https://mopedrevolution.wixsite.com/electronic/shop
Unfortunately the regulator-converter that comes with the set (or you can buy it separately) gives only 10W output. But it is plugin and it should work just fine.
do I put it before or after the regulator? Or even instead factory made regulator, because it regulates voltage
That regulator is only there to not overfeed the bridge rectifier. Above model can take in the huge difference in idle voltage vs full throttle voltage that the Piaggio coils give out. Especially if you’re not running a stock configuration. If you’d dim it down with that 12v AC regulator you’ll only take away possible power for the larger bridge rectifier. So to answer your question: I’d place it in the place of the regulator and remove the horn rectifier. Once you have 60W of 12V power, you can power everything.
benex wrote:
There are two (~) wires coming in, so one should be connected to the green wire coming out of regulator and the other to the black one? I don’t see any other option, but I want to be sureYou need to feed those with AC power, so looking at your electrical drawing you’ll create a circuit if you hook up green and black. I’m not sure which exact model engine you’re using and how many coils (2,3 or 4 coils) but you could feed it with the output of two coils to get to that 60W of power. I don’t think a single coil could create such output, as its more like 25W per coil.
benex wrote:
I have also found a plug-in sets for LED lights in Piaggio mopeds: https://mopedrevolution.wixsite.com/electronic/shopUnfortunately the regulator-converter that comes with the set (or you can buy it separately) gives only 10W output. But it is plugin and it should work just fine.
Yeah i’ve come across these as well. They where linked on this forum as well. And the 10W is enough for the LED’s he’s driving. The 1.5A bridge rectifier i’ve tested should theoretically give out 18W of power, and that thing is also tiny. And to be fair, the bridge rectifier in that shop looks homemade and maybe a fire hazard. I’d rather get one of those epoxied bridge rectifiers (maybe not made from Chinesium) and bolt it to the frame.
do I put it before or after the regulator? Or even instead factory made regulator, because it regulates voltage
That regulator is only there to not overfeed the bridge rectifier. Above model can take in the huge difference in idle voltage vs full throttle voltage that the Piaggio coils give out. Especially if you’re not running a stock configuration. If you’d dim it down with that 12v AC regulator you’ll only take away possible power for the larger bridge rectifier. So to answer your question: I’d place it in the place of the regulator and remove the horn rectifier. Once you have 60W of 12V power, you can power everything.
Ok, i ordered that converter. Unfortunately it is from China. It seems that there are no such converters apart from China. At least i couldn’t find one. If there is no factory made regulator, the yellow wire from stator goes to one of the cables that go into the converter. So the other cable must be connected to the earth?
benex wrote: There are two (~) wires coming in, so one should be connected to the green wire coming out of regulator and the other to the black one? I don’t see any other option, but I want to be sure
You need to feed those with AC power, so looking at your electrical drawing you’ll create a circuit if you hook up green and black. I’m not sure which exact model engine you’re using and how many coils (2,3 or 4 coils) but you could feed it with the output of two coils to get to that 60W of power. I don’t think a single coil could create such output, as its more like 25W per coil.
In my mopeds there are 4 coil stators (as in the picture below), but in each of them there is only one yellow wire coming out (apart from three wires that feed the CDI) that can be used as power suply for the whole electricity. I don’t know if the yellow wire is connected to more than one coils (can’t check right now, because the stator is mounted on the moped). Do i have to connect another wire to one of the coils to get more power out of stator?
Or maybe it would be better to get a stator with 3 wires coming out to power up lights and turn signals? It seems that each of those three wires is connected to a different coil.
It seems that the yellow wire that powers up all electronics is connected to all 3 coils. It is more clearly on this picture. Red circles show the connections between yellow wire and all 3 coils.
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