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Hello,
I’m building a “new” ciao motor, and need some inputs from you guys that have plenty of knowlage.
General info about the motor:
– Malossi reed carter
– Malossi crank shaft
– Malossi/dellorto PHBG 19mm carb
– Malossi inner rotor racing ignition system (without flywheel, so it will rev fast)
– Malossi D.E.P.S 47mm (NOT yet decided)
– Malossi too bad 22/27mm (NOT yet decided)Questions:
1. What size of JET/sproeier valve do I need for this setup? Is 78 sufficent? Or should I go smaller/bigger, I don’t want to break anything soon 🙂2. The malossi DEPS comes with 22mm and 27mm exhaust port, and the malossi TOO BAD is availble in 2 diffrent sizes, 22mm and 27mm. which setup would give me the most, 22 or 27mm? It isn’t always the biggest which is the best 🙂
3. Is there other combination of cylinder/exhaust that will suit the malossi reed case as good as, or even better than the Malossi DEPS? How is the normal Malossi 46,5mm cylinder, good/bad?
4. Is there any LC/water cooled cylinder kits out there, still in production? That will fit the Malossi reedcarter? The bigger the better.. Because I’m using the Malossi race ignition, there is no room for the flywheel/cooling fan and I’m a bit afraid the motor will hot/warm and lead to failure.
5. What top speed can I expect with this setup? I will use Malossi multivar, and standard gear ratio inside the wheel hub.
Thanks 🙂
1. Go bigger, 82 or higher should be sufficient.
2. Forget about the Malossi Too bad old exhaust. There’s no difference in exhaust flanges 22m or 27mm. With the new “Too bad” (Giannelli Fire) I don’t know any results. It could be a 27mm performs better then the 22mm version.
3. Although not directly smooth fitted, many people have better results with another cylinder like the 46mm Pinasco black. Most times the big DEPS is disappointing and has even lesser results as with his 43mm little brother.
4. No LC kits out there, still in production. You may find a second hand kit. Also there is no original race ignition from Malossi out there. This must be an item supposed to be for another type of moped/scooter. Didn’t you bought a Minarelli type of ignition which still has to be worked to fit on your Malossi reed carters?
5. Nice to know what gear ratio you will call standard? Hopefully 1:10,5 in combination with 90mm clutch pulleys will go for a good 85+km/h
Thanks mate 🙂
So, do you recomend the new too bad? You are saying it’s the same exhaust as the Gianelli Fire? Is there any other exhaust that provenly is a very good choice?
Will the Pinasco black this carter good? I mean, the carter is from the beginning made to match the big DEPS right? Do I need to do some modifications or raise/tune the cylinder maybe?
Yes, it’s a minarelli ignition from Malossi, made by Selettra.. The carter is already prepared to install this inner rotor, but this thing is to darn big that no flywheel/fan will fit to cool the motor off. Maybe the original fan is over-estimated and motor will get plenty of cooling anyway?
Too be honest I don’t know my gear ratio, I bought a vario-kit through Ebay, and I havent got it yet.. The vario kit comes from Italy, thoose people are speed maniacs so I assume it has some good gear ratio? Otherwise I’ll need to buy the Malossi race gears, as simple as is 🙂
EDIT:
I looked for the Pinasco, I only find a normal 46mm, black coated aluminium cylinder.. That is the one you refered to? I saw that they once produced a DEPS cylinder aswell, are they still in production?Yes, i refered to this Pinasco black coated Alu cylinder. Big DEPS alu cylinders are prodeced again in 2010. You can still buy these in shops.
No not really, I think this Malossi pipe is overpriced. You can buy the Giannelli Fire for half it’s price new. Only a different silencer mounted on it. In my opinion the Giannelli looks even better. 😉 Also this pipe has proven to be a high rpm pipe with high top speeds, but has not proven itself on bigger cylinders 46mm+ yet. I know some people don’t get good performance in this case, where others will do good. (http://www.vespa-ciao.nl/forums.php?m=posts&q=26010) Popular exhausts are the Proma CC, Cannon and Simonini Calibrata.
You can work your transfers in the carter so a 46mm Pinasco would fit nicely. As said, many people here choose the Pinasco over a Big DEPS.
I thought the rotor itself has to be machined to fit the crank aswell? Don’t trust this setup without a cooling fan. You should look for a cooling option certainly not whitout it! It will get to hot.
Hopefully you get your 1:10,5 ratio as it will be perfect for your Ciao with 16 or 17 inch wheels. Malossi gears might be to long.
Thanks again 🙂
I bought this carter/krukas/carb and also Malossi ignition:
http://www.vespa-ciao.nl/forums.php?m=posts&q=33867I can’t tell yet how things fit, as I yet haven’t received the package. But I will certanly make sure there is perfect fitting, I have access to both CNC mill and lathe, so machining it if necessary won’t be a problem, I might also machine off a bit of the rotor, to make a cooling fan fit inside, will have a closer look when I get the parts 🙂
So you say peopple choose Pinasco over big DEPS, how about Pinascos own DEPS model? Is this even better than the normal 46mm Pinasco? Do you perhaps a link to a webshop that sells theese cylinders? Both the DEPS and the normal 46mm.
As simonini make big-bore motors, probably they’re exhaust would match a 46-47mm cylinder better than the Gianelli?
Does it matter if I choose a Bravo head or a Ciao head? The Bravo head looks like it’s better colling, but will it fit inside a ciao? (probably not I guess)
A bravo/si head Will not fit. Just a ciao head.
Klik here for a webshop who sells both the Pinasco and Malossi.
Maybe you can start a perso over here in which you will show your project and updates on the work with the rotor ignition. There are not many who described and used an Selletra rotor and if i’m not mistaken the seller of these items never got his ignition running. So yes it is nice you can make use of all machinery needed for this build.
Not many people combined the 43mm Pinasco DEPS with the Malossi MP carters. I have no personal experiences. I do know of two of these setups from users here on VC.nl, Jelle and Frank80cc. Although i’m not sure Jelle used the Malossi cases they might have been Polini Evo?
Also keep in mind on the Old versions you have to open up the boosters on the 46mm Pinasco for better performance. The new 2013 version already have them opened up. And to get even more power out of your Cylinder people had worked there exhaustports an channels as well.
A standard Bravo/Si head will not fit in a Ciao frame, but when you can get easy access to a milling machine, they can be easely worked so they fit in your Ciao frame.
Ooh and as for the Simonini theory. Yes you might think they would build specific exhaust for there big bore cylinders, but the supposed pipe which came with their Simonini 3p motor is rubbish. With the Calibrata you can’t go wrong anyway, hence the popularity of this exhaust.
So I just received my variator kit, piaggio original.. But how can I tell without opening the case what gearing it has? There was a thread on page 2 in english section with a complete list.. But pictures in the post suggested to look for a number on the hub.. Mine does not have that number :S Is there anyway to determine the gear ratio without opening the gearbox?
On the lid, it says “4A” and on the bakside of the housing it says “3A” the number shown in Maxiciaos photos does not exist on my hub.
as I said, it’s from Italy, if theres any general gearing used specific in Italy?
Iwill ofcourse put up a project thread, as soon as I get my hands on a good frame.. There aren’t many Ciaos for sale in Sweden at the moment, and when they show up, peopple want crazy money 🙂
sx3-swe :
Is there anyway to determine the gear ratio without opening the gearbox?no.
sx3-swe :
if theres any general gearing used specific in Italy?no.
the only way you know for sure is to count the amount of teeth on the gears. if you count those, somebody here can tell you exactly which gear ratio you have.
edit:
woops, forget the method jockoballa mentioned, that works just fine!To determine the gear ratio you don’t need to open the gearbox.
If you turn the big output shaft on the backside ones (mark it with edding) you can count the turns the vario converter shaft makes.E.g. 1 turn big output shaft = 10,5 turns converter shaft reveals a 10,5:1 ratio.
PS. If you want to order the 47mm DEPS I can offer it to you for 245 € inkl. shipping to Sweden for a new complete kit in package with 10 or 12mm pin Bravo or Ciao cilinderhead. The 27mm Too Bad exhausts costs 118 € and you don’t need to pay extra shipping costs.
EDIT: The usual price is ca. 250 € + shipping. Unfortunately shipping to Sweden is not really cheap.
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/de/products/rennzylinder+kit+malossi+big_m317524
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